AutoTrader Web

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Precautions

19381 views November 6, 2024 Pritesh 17

If you are trading into the markets, we understand you are already aware of it’s financial risks. In this article, we will document known limitations as well as other risks while trading with AutoTrader Web.

Please note that this article focuses on our product AutoTrader Web. It is not intended to explain stock market risks, but the rather risks involved in using our software services.

Trading Precautions

  1. Basics
    1. People using these system are expected to know basic functions of the stocks as well as derivative market based on the area in which you are trading
    2. Users are expected to know following basics:
      1. Difference between Orders & Positions
      2. Bracket/Cover order
      3. Limit/Market/Stoploss/Stoploss-Market types of orders
    3. Having this knowledge is important to take the right decision in case of issues
  2. Credentials
    1. Please note that the credentials you stored in our system are highly secured. More details are present in security concerns.
  3. Beginners need to GO SLOW
    1. You may have in-depth knowledge of stock markets, but if you are a new user; you need to go slow
      1. AutoTrader Web is a fairly big system & internally very complex as well. Although we have documented it very well, most users are reluctant to read the documentation
      2. Hence they are not aware of all features, their internal working etc.
      3. So if you take it easy, you have less chances of heavy losses, which may be due to known limitations or lack of knowledge of the system
    2. What we mean by “going slow” is that:
      1. Trade offline (during non-trading hours)
      2. In live market, trading in stocks with very small quantity
      3. Keep very low funds in your account
      4. Slowly increase your capital as you start to grow confidence
  4. Master Child Auto-Copy (Copy Trading)
    1. The precautions have been documented here.
  5. Password Expiry
    1. Every stock broker has different rules for password expiry dates. Some brokers have a 60 days expiry; while others have no expiry.
    2. You need to check with your stock broker & find out the expiry date.
    3. If your trading account password expires after a certain number of days, then it is your responsibility to change the trading platform password before it expires. Otherwise you might realize it while you are starting a trading day that your password has expired.
    4. The whole point is to avoid any inconvenience during trading days.
    5. If you hold multiple trading accounts & your stock broker has set password expiry days; then it is a good idea to change passwords of all accounts once in a month on a weekend. This will make sure all passwords have the same expiry date & if there is any issue; you still have plenty of time to fix it, as you are doing this on a weekend.
  6. API Limits
    1. This is one of the most important concepts & users especially those who are doing automated trading must understand it. Read more about API Limits.
    2. Those who are trading manually from our website & have large number of accounts (100+) should not refresh the portfolio too often within a short span of time. Keep a gap of at least 15 seconds, read above link to know more.
  7. Parallel Login
    1. You can view your trading accounts from AutoTrader Web dashboard as well as your broker’s trading platform
    2. There are a few brokers who do not allow this (Zerodha) with a few exceptions
    3. Please see broker specific limitations at the bottom of this article
  8. Browser Compatibility
    1. We recommend using Google Chrome browser, as the testing is done in Google Chrome
    2. On Mac or non-windows operating systems, sometimes we have seen compatibility issues on few environments. If you observe any such issues, then please use Firefox browser
  9. Broker Technical Issues
    1. At times, broker servers can throw errors. These could be rare errors or a major technical problem on the broker’s side.
    2. Errors thrown by broker can be easily identified as they will start with following format:
      1. “Error from <Broker Name>: <ERROR MESSAGE>”
    3. Please note that you along with us are the users of the broker’s trading platform. And if there are any issues on their side; then there is not much we can do unless they fix it on their side.
    4. We do send out notification to our Alerts whatsapp & telegram groups, whenever we observe an issue. These groups can be joined from here.
    5. On days when your broker has issues, it is better to square-off your portfolio & not trade unless the issues are resolved. Also login to your broker’s trading platform to make sure everything is as expected.
    6. IMPORTANT: Those managing multiple trading accounts across different brokers should check this guide on how to manage other broker accounts.
  10. Backup trading account
    1. There are many reasons that can cause issues in your trading, some examples are:
      1. Broker changes their platforms
      2. Technical issues in broker’s systems
      3. Policy changes by the broker etc.
    2. If you are a big trader or portfolio manager, these things can hurt you as it takes anywhere between 2-3 days to open an account with another broker
    3. Hence, it is recommended to have an account with another broker which you can quickly use in case there are any issues with your primary broker
  11. Slowness
    1. Sometimes you will see slowness in our system, that mostly happens due to the issues with a particular broker or trading account. If you are using multiple trading accounts, please try to select them individually using the dropdown available on AutoTrader Web.
    2. To understand why almost all the time broker’s systems are responsible for slowness, you just need to understand basic architecture of the system:
      1. You or your trading system sends a request to AutoTrader Web
      2. A request can be (place/modify/cancel order or read margins/positions/orders)
      3. Our system then forwards this request to your stock broker’s server & it waits for the response
        1. The broker’s server has many internal systems through which order goes (Example, RMS – risk management system, OMS – order management system etc.)
        2. From your broker the order goes to the exchange
        3. The exchange then sends the response to the stock broker’s server
        4. Stock broker’s server processes the response & returns it back to us
      4. Once we have the response, we simply return the response back to you
      5. The average time spent in processing by our system is 0.03 seconds for each request
      6. This is because our system is just like a bridge, connecting you or your trading system to your stock broker’s system
      7. Majority of time is spent on your broker’s server & on the exchange
    3. Remember our system hardly does any processing, so our CPU usage is around 4-5% on average
    4. Our servers are on Google Cloud’s Mumbai data center, so you can be pretty sure the network speeds are fastest
    5. Order copying delays
      1. When you copy an order into multiple accounts, our system executes the order into multiple accounts parallelly (into a batch of 8 accounts)
      2. Batching is done to avoid sending too many requests to your stock broker at the same time
      3. Now, although the execution is parallel; the system must wait for the response of all orders (as it needs to show the status or order_id of all orders to the user)
      4. If one of the order takes time or one of your broker has issues; the whole order copying operation has to wait (even though most of your orders have already been placed)
    6. Logging
      1. We have been very transparent about what our system does
      2. Every activity along with timestamp is logged & you can view it from AutoTrader Web Menu (AutoTrader -> Activity)
      3. If you find any issues with our system, you have the proof in activity logs & you can inform us about it
      4. Activity is only kept last 15 calendar days
  12. Square-off (Positions)
    1. Square-off is internally a fairly complex process. You can read more about it in Internal working of the Square-off process.
    2. Although square-off happens quickly, by nature it is not an instantaneous process. You may ask why it is not instantaneous? For that, you need to read the internal working.
    3. When you click a Square-off button; it is a request being submitted to the system.
    4. The success message you see, simply means a position is accepted for square-off. It is accepted, not completed; the actual square-off could still be running.
    5. So once you square-off, wait for a few seconds & then verify that the position is squared off by refreshing your positions.
      1. If it is not squared-off, then you can do manual square-off or in worst case scenario; square-off by logging onto your trading platform
        1. Note: If a position fails to square-off once via Square-off button, then it will not be accepted for square-off. So there is no point placing the square-off button again & again. Only other option is manual square-off from AutoTrader Web or your broker’s trading platform
        2. Bracket / Cover order positions can be manually square-off by cancelling their open child orders
        3. Regular positions can be manually square-off by placing a reverse order
    6. One of the major reasons for square-off failure is when the square-off order placed by AutoTrader Web is rejected by your stock broker. Some of the known reasons are:
      1. MARKET orders not allowed by brokers in illiquid option contracts
      2. Rejection due to shortfall of margin
  13. Square-off (Holdings)
    1. Almost all brokers DO NOT update the holdings in real-time. So if you have sold some holdings today, you must check the Positions tab for the status of Holdings sold on the current day.
    2. The % quantity feature uses quantity as seen in the holdings page. So take this into account, if you are using % quantity to sell same holdings multiple times.
    3. The system will calculate Total Holding Quantity = Quantity + T1 quantity
    4. To sell holdings, you must have a POA submitted with the broker. See this article for more details.
  14. Quantity
    1. Almost all brokers take quantity in multiples of lot size
    2. But if you are not sure, always try in number of lots first, example 1 lot (most likely you will get an error)
    3. Then you can try in multiples of lot size, example 75 quantity for taking one lot of NIFTY future
  15. Auto-refresh not available
    1. The web dashboard does not have auto-refresh & there are some reasons behind it
    2. More details on it can be found here
  16. TradingView
    1. TradingView strategies & alerts keep running even if you close your browser
    2. So if you are doing automated trading using TradingView, then please remember to stop your strategies/alerts when you do want intend to use them
    3. Please be careful, avoid modifying the alerts or strategy settings during live market. This is because, TradingView can repaint a signal when you modify the settings in live market & it may lead to unexpected results. If you are doing testing then it is okay to modify settings in live market. Here are some references to repainting:
      1. Avoiding repainting with alerts
      2. Indicator repainting
  17. at-desktop client
    1. The client displays a message at the bottom of the screen whenever there is a new version available
    2. It is highly recommended to upgrade your client when a new version is available
  18. Help Links
    1. The system is designed to provide immediate help to all known issues or limitations
    2. If you get a known error; then your error pop-up or mail with a Help me on this error or Help Me link
    3. These links provide solutions to the relevant problem
    4. They allow the user to quickly resolve the problem instead of approaching support team which can take longer

Broker Limitations/Issues

Zerodha

  1. M2M & PnL
    1. We added a new column called “AT PnL” recently, but that is calculated using our system (not by your broker). So there maybe differences, please notify us if you see any discrepancy.
    2. The M2M & PNL values that our system receives from Zerodha are updated every 2-5 minutes by them. So they are NOT real-time. Our system fetches it every time from Zerodha, but the values we receive are stale.
    3. API users (programmers) should use AT PnL column or calculate PnL using live data from their market data vendor
  2. Parallel login
    1. Zerodha does not allow you to login from two or more places into a single account
    2. The exception to this rule is KITE Mobile App, which can be used alongside AutoTrader Web
    3. So when you are using your Zerodha account, it is not advised to login to your Kite platform via browser
    4. If for some reason, you need to login via browser; then you must take following precautions
      1. If you are using at-desktop client, then stop it
      2. If you are using our APIs then make sure your trading system is paused or stopped
      3. Login to Kite & finish your work
      4. Logout from kite
      5. Refresh this account positions, orders or margins on AutoTrader Web for this account
      6. Start your at-desktop or automated trading system
  3. Gateway Timeout
  4. Bracket & Cover orders will be supported if they are enabled by Zerodha
  5. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Upstox

  1. M2M & PnL
    1. PnL & some other important fields are incorrect in position data (for overnight positions). We have opened this ticket with Upstox for this bug.
  2. Bracket orders are not currently supported by Upstox
  3. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Angel Broking

  1. Cover order
    1. Their Smart API implementation still does not support Cover order
    2. Once they start supporting, we will enable support for CO
  2. Stability
    1. Stability still needs to be improved on their side (they are working on it as per our conversation with them)
  3. Smart API is not as fast as Zerodha in terms of execution speed
  4. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Kotak

  1. MCX exchange orders are not allowed by Kotak on their APIs. They do not have an approval for the exchange. You can double check this with their customer care.
  2. PnL – Kotak only provide M2M values, PnL value is not provided at the time of writing
  3. Cover order – In our testing, we found bugs in Kotak’s cover order (hence we have disabled it for now). This has been reported to Kotak
  4. Bracket order – Kotak Neo API does not support bracket order
  5. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Fyers

  1. Bracket Order in Fyers API does not support trailing s/l
  2. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

AliceBlue

  1. PnL & M2M
    • AliceBlue API does not display overnight pnl for derivative positions
  2. Cover orders will be supported if they are enabled by AliceBlue
  3. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Profitmart

  1. PnL & M2M
    1. Pnl value is not provided by Profitmart API, so what you see is the value calculated by AutoTrader Web
    2. M2m value is provided by Profitmart API
  2. Bracket & Cover orders will be supported if they are enabled by Profitmart
    1. We could not test this feature as it was disabled in our test account. If you face any issues, kindly inform us.
  3. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Zebu

  1. Logout – Users can login to Zebu website in parallel, but they should not click Logout. Because doing so will result in API login (used by AutoTrader Web) to also become invalid.
  2. Holdings data is currently not available. We are working on providing it.
  3. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Mastertrust

  1. Parallel Login
    1. Mastertrust does not allow parallel login into their main web based trading website (https://www.mastertrust.co.in/trade-login). So avoid logging into this website when you are using your account from AutoTrader Web; otherwise you may face errors.
    2. However, parallel login is allowed from their other applications (See below)
      1. Mobile Application
      2. Desktop Application
      3. Beta web application (https://masterswift-beta.mastertrust.co.in/)
  2. Bracket Order
    1. Currently BO is disabled, as Mastertrust API does not support exiting from a BO. Once they support it, we will enable BO from our side. For more details, contact Mastertrust API support.
  3. M2M & PnL
    1. Mastertrust APIs does not provide position pnl
    2. Our system calculates the pnl shown for Mastertrust positions based on live price received in the position response
    3. Although our testing shows pnl is accurate, if you see any discrepancy then kindly inform us.
  4. For stocks delivery orders, Mastertrust supports either DELIVERY or NORMAL product type depending on the brokerage plan. So if you are placing a delivery order for stocks & your clients are on different plans, then you need to take care of this.
  5. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Nuvama

  1. Cover Order is NOT supported
  2. Holdings are only visible, if your account has POA submitted. We have raised this issue with Nuvama team that holdings should be visible for all accounts. Still waiting for them to fix it.
  3. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

IIFL

  1. IIFL changes order id once the order is executed (status goes from OPEN to COMPLETE). This causes problems for those using API requests that want to modify/cancel orders. It even affects order cancellation in master/child auto-copy (order cancellation). For more information, speak to support team.

5Paisa

  1. 5Paisa changes order id once the order is executed (status goes from OPEN to COMPLETE). This causes problems for those using API requests that want to modify/cancel orders. It even affects order cancellation in master/child auto-copy (order cancellation). For more information, speak to support team.

Motilal Oswal

  1. Motilal Oswal API does not provide PnL. Hence the PnL you see is calculated by our system. If you see any discrepancy, please notify it to us.
  2. Holdings data is currently not provided by Motilal via apis. Our team has already requested them to provide this data just like all other brokers. We are currently awaiting response.
  3. We observed a delay in portfolio updates. It takes some time for their system to reflect portfolio updates (like new orders, modifications, cancellations etc.)

Finvasia

  1. Cover Order
    1. Cover order is not supported on Shoonya as they use trigger price (or stoploss) which is relative (this is different in design than all other brokers who use actual value)
  2. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Choice

  1. M2M & PnL
    1. We do show PnL for Choice now, but that is calculated using our system (not by your broker). So there maybe differences, please notify us if you see any discrepancy.
    2. The position data we receive from Choice, does not have M2M & PnL values. More details are available here.
    3. API users should also not use these columns & rather calculate PnL using live data from their market data vendor or use AT PnL column
  2. Price Conversion
    1. Most of the price related columns are accepted in paisa by Choice api. We have taken care of converting it to/from paisa. So users need not worry about it. They can enter values in rupees. But if you do see any issues, then let us know.
  3. Password Change
    • In case you get a wrong password error while setting up Choice account, please note the following:
    • Choice has 2 different passwords:
      • One that you can set when you login via your Choice’s login id (this is the one we need to use in our system)
      • The other one is setup when you login using your phone number
  4. Check knowledge base for a list of known issues

Support

Support is always there to help, you can contact us on phone, whatsapp or email. However do note following points:

  • Use Activity log to do self investigation first (if applicable)
  • Always try to provide as much details as possible (including screenshots if applicable)
  • It might not always be AutoTrader Web’s fault; so just try to get to the bottom of the issue
  • The approach should be:
    1. Find the root cause
    2. Identify the party responsible for the problem (User, AutoTrader Web, Stock Broker, Stock Exchange)
    3. Fix the problem by approaching the responsible party (if possible, or try to come up with a workaround)

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